Let's learn an other trio

Who is in for an other trio or duo? Don’t want to push anybody to participate :-)
Here is a page with free trios sheet music http://www.8notes.com/violin_trio/sheet_music/?page=2&orderby=6u. the first page seems to be all very easy. Maybe we can a trio from the second or third page? Many of them only have an interesting first voice, but maybe there is one we can find that we all like?

This one seems fun: http://www.8notes.com/scores/11995.asp (the Entertainer)
This one is beautiful too: http://www.8notes.com/scores/11891.asp (Confutatis Maledictis)

Any other ideas?

I remember Emma saying that we should organize better than last time and I totally agree. I think it would be great if all three of us would play along a recording or midi instead of with a metronome. Makes it feel more natural. we should talk much more about the dynamics. And maybe do 2 recordings. First do one and give feedback, then practice again and record a second time with improvements.
I won’t be able to do Skype, my internet connection is not great and I also don’t have much time for it. But I will be available here to discuss things.
Does anybody of you have a nice program to mix the recordings? My program is not really great to do that. It was a lot of work last time. If nobody else can do it, I will do it again, but if anybody of you have a better program to mix the recordings, that would be great!

What do you think?

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31 thoughts on “Who is in for an other trio or duo?

  1. I would love to do so, but not before my performance on july 8th since I don’t really have leftover time because of that.
    I will also look for trios but probably not today.

    The 2nd you suggested sounds nice but not sure if it’s something I’d like to play.
    The Entertainer I actually definitely don’t want to play.XD I’ve heard this song so often as a kid and I’ve disliked it from the very beginning. That hasn’t changed today…XD

    Two recordings sounds like a good idea. So we can see where to improve. And more discussion sounds good too.

    I could mix the videos but I don’t do fancy title stuff so my videos look more sterile. Maybe I can put them together and you can add a title and end? (Something like saying something nice in the end).

  2. Hi ChibiEdo, that’s great! For me it’s perfectly fine to wait till after July 8th. I still have enough other things to practice ;-) That would also give us more time to search for a nicer trio that we all like!

    It would be great if you could mix the videos. Of course, I could add the title and end speech :-)

    Let’s wait and see what Emma says.

  3. …. That one link is giving me problems everytime I try to include it the post just disappears without telling me an error or something… I really don’t know why it hates the link so much I tried EVERYTHING, it was pretty frustrating… Now I wrote a DOT in between so just change that one thing to an actual .

    Concerto in E Major by Bach:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_5BCNBMmsM here is a random youtube recording of the song

    theviolinplaceDOTcom/Free%20Sheet%20Music.html sheet music

    This is pretty nice, but it might be a bit hard. Not sure. Since it’s so long I’d only suggest playing the first movement.
    For Violin I that would be almost 5 pages.
    Violin II it’s 3 pages with no shifting (if I saw correctly) so that might work for you.
    The Viola part could be played as a third violin. In my disappeared post I wrote a bit about the key signature that is used here but I don’t really want to write all that down again… So basically if the viola part is played one octave higher it’s playable on the violin. To read it you just have to imagine all notes one step higher to have the corresponding note in treble clef. That part would also have shifting but less than Violin I.

    Dynamics are already written into the sheet music so that’s nice.
    In case we decided to try this one I’d like to try either Violin I or the Viola part, but again, not sure if it’s not too hard right now… It’s really pretty though!

  4. Thanks for searching an other trio. :-) I’m sorry you had troubles posting the link. I’ve never had this before. Please let me know if this happens again.

    The video you posted seems to be something else, about note reading. Here is a recording of the Concerto in E Major https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC0d7BuS1ZA. I think it sounds great! I would love to do this. I think I would be able to play violin 2, don’t know at what speed but if I have enough time it would be doable. Would love this challenge!

    Cool, you found a piano accompaniment. If that works with the trio then we could use this to play along while recording.

  5. As it comes to playing a trio, I’m always in :)
    I like the Mozart piece. It’s really great. As it comes to Bach, I love this piece, but this piece is really hard. First thing – Violin I, Violin II and Viola are only accompaniment parts – there is a solo part that is harder than Bach a minor concerto, which is in Suzuki 7th book, which would be safer option to do. Next thing is whenever we play only 1st movement or whole piece. I think that we should wait several months before playing Bach concertos or it would take us 3/4 months to complete. I really love those pieces and I wish to play them some day.
    If you are thinking about something orchestral baroque look at the Vivaldi pieces – for example G major (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6b7WH9Le-E), D major (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcO5pSMFV6A), g minor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xy1fUzSISLs) or a minor (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46w3KOy_ros). They are all much harder than the previous trio that we’ve played, but much easier than Bach. One advantage more is the fact that they are shorter (taking 3 minutes instead 6).
    I hope that we will be able to pick something nice and not too hard. Can’t wait practicing.

  6. Glad you’re in too Emma! I didn’t know that the Bach trio has an other solo voice which is much harder. you know so much about this music!!
    I do like the last two pieces you sent, especially the last one in a minor.
    But I like all of them (just like the fourth one more), so I’ll say it depends more of you two. Seems pretty hard to me, but if could look at the sheet music, maybe it’s not as hard as I think… Emma, you seem to know a lot about this, so I trust your judgment on what we would be able to achieve. What do you think ChibiEdo?

  7. I really like the fourth one, but it has to be played in tempo to me. The violin part for the fourt one is in Suzuki book 4. I think it’s the easiest out of those four pieces. I have already played it through and 1st movement is doable for me :) We may also try to play the third movement in future (it needs little more work than the 1st). I haven’t seen violin 1 and 2 orchestral parts, but they should be available on imslp.
    The g minor concerto is slightly harder – it’s in Suzuki book 5. I think it’s at simmilar level to the double concerto that I am playing right now. G major concerto is at simmilar level as this one in a minor. This one in D major is deffinitely the hardest, but that’s my fave. As it comes to picking a concerto I think we should start with with one of the easier ones – a minor or G major (we may try g minor).
    I think you should look at all of those pieces and see what you could manage to play.

  8. Thanks for all the info Emma! I’m going to search for that sheet music this weekend and have a look at it. It’s pretty busy at the moment so I’ll look into it in a couple of days. If it’s the level of Suzuki 5 I’m sure it will be way too hard for me. But maybe the 3rd voice will be easier… Or how does this work for these pieces? If I understand correctly there is a violin solo, violin 1 and violin 2 or orchestral part. What then is the difference between violin solo and violin 1?

  9. Sorry for my absence I’ve had a straining week because I had a cold and felt very dead everyday but also went to work. I’m trying to look into the pieces you linked. But we also need to make sure it’s something where we can easily get sheet music for.

    And I agree that the Bach concerto might be bit too hard right now (I started playing it a bit, it’s fun so I might occasionally work on it). I’d definitely like to do that one later on though~

    When choosing music I think if it’s something that Emma finds hard it’s probably too hard for me right now. Since I think I’m a bit less advanced in comparison.

    I’m excited to work on another trio~

  10. Hello Emma and ChibiEdo! Sorry it took me so long to respond. I’ve been looking into the sheet music for the Vivaldi Concertos. I looked at the easiest one, which is a minor. Honestly, I don’t think I’m up to that yet. Violin 2 and 3 are at pretty much the same level of difficulty it seems to me. So, do you think it’s OK to leave this for later? It’s not so funny to play something and it sounds awful because it’s too hard…

    So I decided to look back at the things we discussed for the first trio we did. We talked about Pachelbel Canon but it’s still too hard, since all three voices are equally hard and I’m not up for that yet.

    I have been looking also into the Dancla trios. Emma, you seem to have looked at before too. And I think those are more doable. Here is the sheet music http://imslp.nl/imglnks/usimg/3/3d/IMSLP420232-PMLP215599-dan_vl_tr_99.pdf. There are three violin trios in this book. They are not easy (although the title of the book says they are :-) ), but they don’t seem too hard either. The advantage is that it’s really for three violins, not viola or other instrument. I think that’s a pro. Also whichever we would do from this book, I think I can manage to play Violin 3.

    So far I’ve only found a recording of the first trio in this book, which is Trio Number 4.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0lt5LCCkSs It’s nice but I think I like Trio Number 5 more. I haven’t found a recording but I tried to sing it and it sounds like fun. But for me any of these would be fine if of course you two would be OK with this. Any other ideas?

  11. Hi!
    There’s no problem for me with not playing Vivaldi – I already did 2 concertos by him (currently working on one) and I’m quite tired with playing baroque music :D I predict that I will get other Vivaldi piece pretty soon (since my teacher is big Vivaldi fan :P).
    I need to admit that I really like Dancla pieces (I wish I will play his 1st concert solo, because it’s so beautiful). I wanted to see how the 5th trio will sound finally and I synthesized mdi file out of it – here’s the effect (without bowing and articulation yet): https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B85z0Eo5dC1oODliQ3AtcjI5U3M
    I’m really impressed with it – I can’t wait to practice it. It would be a nice break from my Vivaldi, tarantella by Lewi (first Tarantella that I dislike :D) and Polonaise (that I really like). I have so little time to polish those pieces, but it was too late to practice, so I worked on this mdi.
    I need to say that it’s ok for me as it comes to difficulty, but I think that 2nd and 3rd violin may have problems in bar 43 onward with tricky bowing. Try to play it like written, but it may be easier for you to play it all separate.
    Violin 3 has also a tricky pizzicato part (hitting right string holding the bow isn’t really easy). An advice – play the pizzicato with the right finger hitting the string on the fingerboard – it will make better sound.
    I think that we can did it. If we will decide on it I will add correct bowing and articulation to mdi file.
    It will be good to practice with it.
    I’m super excited with playing this trio :) Can’t wait for the final result.

  12. Wooooow Emma, thank you so much for creating the MIDI file. Was it a lot of work??
    It’s great to hear what this trio sounds like, I think it sounds very nice!!! I would love to do this if ChibiEdo is OK with this one too.
    Where is the pizzicato part for Violin 3? I can’t find it. Or is that where the small triangles are above the notes?
    Happy to hear that this would be a break from your other repertoire. Good luck with that… must be hard to practice something that you don’t really like.

  13. Actualy making this mdi file was ok :) It took me 1.5 hour to complete all three violin parts. I haven’t add the slurs and articulation to this file, so it’s not finished yet, but if we will decide on this piece I will add them.
    In violin 3 there is quite long section starting at the 1st line of this piece on page 20 and ending at the begining of 3rd line – it starts with pizz and ends with arco.
    I played through it today and the difficulty is ok for me. There are several high 4 moments that are out of tune and I have problem with rythm on this syncopas in the second section.
    Actualy I feel like I don’t practice this piece almost at all – I start with it and after a minute I switch to something different. And then after few minutes I come back there again. I will have to put some effort to memorise it tomorrow – I have only one week to do it. What’s funny I already have memorised 1st section of this trio :D If I enjoy something it goes really fast in my case. Never before I had any problems with memorising a piece.

  14. Aha I found the pizzicato part, I didn’t before notice the tiny word pizz. :-) I just tried to play Violin 3 and you’re right, there is definitely a tricky bowing part. But I’ll be able to get it right after practicing for some time. Actually this piece is great because I get to work on pizzicato, double stops and slurred string crossings! And it sounds so beautiful! So for me this trio is a GO!!

    What do you think ChibiEdo, do you like this trio too?

  15. Finally I got to listening to the midi and the Trio is so pretty! Love it. And you did a great job Emma. I haven’t tried to play it but it looks doable. I’d really like to play the violin 2 part, would that be ok with you? But I would be ok with any of the parts they are all pretty. Violin 2 has some interesting double stops and slurs with string crossings that I’d love to try.

  16. That’s great! So this trio is a GO then. :-) I’ll stick with Violin 3, I’m very excited to start practicing!! And I know that you ChibiEdo won’t have much time to start practicing because of your performance in July. It doesn’t matter. No rush! :-)

  17. Super! I were already practicing this piece for a while and I really enjoy playing it. It’s great piece to work on bowing and vibrato. I think we have much time to finish those pieces and work on it. It’s well said that we don’t have to rush.
    Chibiedo. How are you doing with your showpieces? I am good with mine – I have already memorised tarantella and today I were playing it with piano acompaniament. I wish I could play it in faster tempo, but my teacher insisted on playing it not too fast. Do you play your pieces with piano? Have you already tried to play it with accompaniament? I need to say that lessons only with a pianist are great – they’re better organized than those ones with both of them – they have two different opinions about a piece.
    I am very excited about this trio. I am waiting for the final efect. :bye:

  18. Emma, it’s great that you are doing fine with your show pieces! I think mine are at a point now where I think they are ok enough to play in front of an audience but I’m not fully content yet. I also memorised two of them already. I’m not sure if I’ll be brave enough to actually play without sheet music though…xD I actually didn’t actively memorise them, I just tried to and it worked.
    My violin teacher usually plays the piano, but she can’t play everything. For the performance there is an actual pianist but I can’t go to any of the scheduled practice times. So the only time we can practice is on the day of the performance before it starts. I’m a tad worried about that.

    I’ll probably start practicing the trio soon because I need a bit distraction from getting too bored. And since the pieces I’ll play are ok right now I’m not practicing them as intensely anymore so I might have some leftover time. I tried the trio a bit and I think it’s pretty hard actually, but it’s probably doable with practice. And it’s fun.

    Are the tiny triangles beneath a note an indication for spiccato, by the way?

  19. Don’t worry about being fully content about your pieces – I were never fully content with mine. I’m sure you’re doing great. As it comes to playing from your memory it’s not that bad – my teacher always says to me that even if you will makw a mistake, almost noone knows this piece and if you won’t show that they won’t even notice.
    My violin teacher also plays piano during lessons, but she can’t play everything, so more advanced students play with a piano teacher from our school during performances. It’s sad that you can’t practice playing with piano several days before performance. I really like listening to the ideas and perspective of pianist – at first I took accompaniament only as acompaniament, but now I start to realise that sometimes I am accompaniament to piano solo :D
    I also treat trio as a break from my regular pieces. I’ve got only few days of playing them left, so I am happy with upcoming changes of the repertoire. :yahoo: We have two performances this week and I will be free to practice our trio. :good:
    Those black triangles are spiccato :D There is a lot of articulation here in our trio. I’m super excited :)

  20. Yes, I’m pretty sure most people indeed don’t hear it when you make a mistake. Sometimes I play for friends and of course I make mistakes because of being a bit nervous or my tone is scratchier. Still they say that is sounds beautiful! Or maybe they just say it because they don’t want to make me sad… LOL But still, your worst critic is you.

    I’ve been practicing the trio. Like it!!! Love the pizzicato, it’s really fun. Is it OK for me to do this with my middle finger? Or am I supposed to do this with the index finger?

    OK, how do I do spiccato? Is it like staccato with an accent??? I thought this triangle meant martele. But then, maybe fast martele is spiccato? Anyway, have no idea :-)

    The hardest part for me is the double stops… I should really focus more on double stops, so this trio is great to work on that.

    Have a nice day!!!

  21. Spiccato is when you bounce the bow off from the string. It’s super pretty but also really hard. It sounds really light and bouncy. Basically you usually play closer to the frog and move your hand in a U shape (some say bowl shape which might be a bit more fitting). I think it’s actually meant to come from the wrist but I never payed attention to what I do because I rarely ACTIVELY practiced spiccato, I just tried to bounce the bow in pieces where I heard spiccato in a recording. I’m pretty sure I’m using more of my arm than I should because it’s super tiring.
    There is also some spiccato in one of my performance pieces, but it’s a “biting” kind, which sounds pretty harsh.

    In pieces staccato and spiccato often have the same notation (a dot under the note)and it’s for you to decide what you’ll use. But luckily in this piece we have a marking for it. What staccato and spiccato have in common is that you hear a note end before you hear the next note. Hard to describe what I mean… In nice detaché bowing (the normal back and forth movement while playing) you try to make the notes sound connected without an abrupt break. Staccato and spiccato have the notes singled out.
    But as mentioned when listening to a recording you can easily hear it. And if you have a video you can even see it. As soon as the is kept lifting up between notes it’s spiccato.

  22. Also found this:

    Starting to watch it right now, it’s probably really good but very long.xD Not sure if I’m going to watch the whole thing right now but I thought you might be interested.

  23. I think those little triangles in our pieces refer here to lifted stroke. Actualy it’s not important so much if we will use here spicatto, but we need to be consistent with the stroke we are using, otherwise it may sound strange. I think we can start trying to play this with spicato stroke, but if it will be too hard for us we can use easier stroke. What is important in those fragments are dynamic diffences – we have forte and then suddenly piano, which may be hard to execute using spicatto.
    I don’t have much expirience in playing spicatto – I worked on this stroke only in two/three of my pieces. In Komarowski on the last page there is a group of double stops that were supposed to play with spiccato bowing. At firts it was quite hard to do lifted storke there and after 2 months of working on spicatto there I still had problems with being consistent with keeping the rythm. Chibiedo, how are you doing with your komarowski?
    I have once watched both films and I need to say that I like Eddie one more. There are many advices how to work on particular technique in his films.
    There are so many things in this duets to talk about. I think, let’s play through duets and stress the hardest parts in the piece.

  24. Isn’t it automatically spiccato when it’s a lifted stroke? Or is there another type of lifted stroke since you mentioned it separately in your first sentence.
    I don’t know where you see any segment that is marked as spiccato following by a dynamic change. I can’t find that in any of the violin parts in this trio. There are a lot of dynamic changes but I don’t see any around the spiccato or I might overloook something. So I think it should be fine to try. It also doesn’t have to be perfect, we are all learning. I also think it’s a LOT of fun and bouncy.XD I have a hard part in the violin 2 part where you have 8 eighth notes spiccato and then suddenly non spiccato eigth following directly after. The switch is hard but I think it’s manageable with practice.

    I posted an mp3 of my current wip of Komarowski in the forum. It’ll still take ages to get to a decent level but I won’t give up.XD I wrote a little bit about it in that post.

    Oh I liked both youtube videos. Of course there is a difference of a short introductionary video that gives you basic ideas and such a long one with a lot of indepth stuff. So I wouldn’t even think about comparing the two videos directly. I did also watch the whole video by Eddie now and it’s really great. He’s a great teacher.

  25. Hehe thanks for the videos! So far I’ve only seen the first one and yesterday I gave it a try. It’s really fun to do!! I have only 4 spiccato notes in my part so that should work out. I think the hardest thing won’t be the spiccato but the sudden change from spiccato to non-spiccato bowing, just like ChibiEdo said.

    I hope to have time today to watch Eddy Chen’s video too. I always love how he explains things!

    I’ve been working on the part from measure 63 to 70. With all the string crossings it was hard at first to play the notes legato, but it’s getting better. :-) My bow feels like a wave on the beach when crossing the strings, cool!

    The double stops are the hardest part for me. I can sort of do a double stop with first finger. But it’s really hard for me to double stop with my second finger. My finger seems to be too small to touch both strings at once. :-( Do you have some tips??

  26. I either have some problems in my part – there are several (4 or 8) staccato notes on one bow (either upbow or downbow). I have some problems with counting them. Some more practice should solve this problem.
    I were little curious about the difficulties that are present in your parts, so I played them through and I need to admit that those string crossings are awful. I had really big problem with this technique for quite a long time, but still playing all of them right is quite hard for me.
    As it comes to putting two fingers on one string, don’t worry if it won’t be perfectly in tune. In my current Vivaldi piece I had a fragment that I had to use second finger on both strings (in third position, making it even harder), such awful that my teacher had to play that several times before getting it perfectly in tune (she’s playing since she was 4 years old). My advice to you is to flatten your second finger (first knuckle down), which will provide you more finger area and then try to adjust the angle of your finger to get it in tune. In some of my pieces they wanted me to shift to second position, because it’s easier to play it with 1st finger than second.

  27. Hello ChibiEdo, hello Emma! How are you guys? And how are things with the trio?

    I’ve been recording my part of the trio yesterday. Just a first version to show you how it’s going so far. This was without metronome and I didn’t count all the rests, just played my part :-)

    I think the double stops are pretty OK now. I still have some issues with the pizzicato part but what do you think?

    I was thinking of this part where ChibiEdo and I have a series of three slurred quarter notes. I think we should use the same bowings there because the two of us do the same thing. How do you want to do that? Alternating up and down bows? Or all up bows which could help with the dynamics. Anyway, the last one should be up bow to be able to do the first spiccato note on a down bow. Any suggestions?

    And are there other spots in the piece where we should agree on which bowings to use?

    Wishing you a great day!

  28. I still need to scan the markings I made in my trio to show you how I’d do the bowing directions…XD But I haven’t gotten myself to do that yet. Know that I haven’t forgotten about this…XD

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